OK. Stevan has my vote.
Jean-Max Noyer
Université de Paris7
Le 9 oct. 08 à 14:09, Ingegerd Rabow a écrit :
My confidence vote for Stevan
Ingegerd Rabow
Lund, Sweden
-----Original Message-----
From: American Scientist Open Access Forum
[mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
On Behalf Of Jeffery, KG (Keith)
Sent: den 9 oktober 2008 06:20
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the
moderator of the AmSci Forum
And me (on pda travelling)
Prof Keith G Jeffery
-----Original Message-----
From: "Alma Swan" <a.swan_at_TALK21.COM>
To:
"AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG"
<AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG>
Sent: 07/10/08 20:00
Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the
moderator of the AmSci Forum
I agree. Stevan should remain, doing his own inimitable
thing, which has been invaluable for OA. He keeps things
focused and provides an input that is uniquely useful.
Count me in on the 'aye' side, please.
Alma Swan
Key Perspectives Ltd
Truro, UK
--- On Tue, 7/10/08, Tony Hey <Tony.Hey_at_MICROSOFT.COM>
wrote:
From: Tony Hey <Tony.Hey_at_MICROSOFT.COM>
Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence
in the moderator of the AmSci
Forum
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Date: Tuesday, 7 October, 2008, 3:40 PM
I absolutely agree with Michael - the list
would die without
Stevan
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: American Scientist Open Access Forum
[mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
On Behalf Of Michael Eisen
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:26 AM
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence
in the
moderator of the AmSci Forum
I disagree with Stevan often. He can be
infuriating. He has
a tendency
to bloviate.
Nonetheless - he has been a FANTASTIC
moderator of this
list. I have
sent off many posts that have criticized
Stevan directly,
and he has
never failed to send them to the group. I can
think of no
other list
that has not just lasted for 10 years, but
kept up a high
level of
discourse and relevance.
Stevan has my complete confidence. The list
would die
without him.
On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:37 AM, Stevan Harnad
wrote:
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:37 AM,
C.Oppenheim_at_lboro.ac.uk
<C.Oppenheim_at_lboro.ac.uk> wrote:
I totally support
Jean-Claude's view.
I can only repeat what I said
before:
(1) I am happy to put an end to
my 10-year
moderatorship of the
American Scientist Open Access
Forum and hand it over
to someone else
who is willing to do it, but only
if it is requested
by a plurality of
the membership, not if it is
merely requested by a few
dissatisfied
members.
(2) The moderator's role is to
filter postings,
approving the relevant
ones, and rejecting the off-topic
or ad-hominem ones.
(3) Apart from that, the
moderator has no special
status or authority
(other than what may accrue from
the substance of his
postings), and
may post *exactly* as any other
poster may post,
including the posting
of quotes, comments, critiques,
elaborations,
rebuttals *and
summaries*.
By my count, there have not been
many votes one way or
the other, but
of the few votes there have been,
more seem to be
expressing
confidence in my moderatorship
than those that are
calling for me to
be replaced.
I have also been accused of of
censorship, by both
Jean-Claude and
Sally, the charge being
subsequently rescinded. If
there are doubts
about whether I can be trusted to
post or tally the
votes -- or, more
important, if we are to spare the
Forum the bandwidth
of votes
appearing instead of OA substance
-- I am also quite
happy to direct
the votes to be sent to a trusted
3rd party for
tallying, if that is
the wish of the Forum.
Stevan Harnad
Charles
Professor Charles
Oppenheim
Head
Department of
Information Science
Loughborough
University
Loughborough
Leics LE11 3TU
Tel 01509-223065
Fax 01509 223053
e mail
c.oppenheim_at_lboro.ac.uk
________________________________
From: American
Scientist Open Access
Forum
[mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-
FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
On
Behalf Of Jean-Claude
Guédon
Sent: 06 October 2008
19:00
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Subject: Re: American
Scientist Open Access
Forum
settings
What I note is that
my messages sometimes
appear
back very late and
I wonder
why. It is this
detail which caused
my recent
angry reaction.
While we are on
technical matters, I
would
appreciate two things
from this
moderator/actor:
1. That he should
refrain from ever
summarizing
somebody's words.
We are all
versed enough in the
art of reading to be
able to
survive without
this
doubtful form of
help. Besides, list
moderators
are not mentors or
paternal
figures. When the
summary ends up
distorting the
original message, it
becomes
reprehensible;
2. Since the
moderator also
intervenes as member
in this list, he
should
make clear which of
his interventions are
moderating interventions
and which
ones are
participations in
discussions. In the
latter case,
summaries should
be avoided.
I realize that Peter
Suber manages a blog
and not
a list, but I
really like
the way in which he
carefully delineates
the
pieces of news he
wants to
convey, and how he
announces his own
comments.
This is a very good
model to
follow. I would also
add that Peter Suber
refrains
from using
judgements and
terms that
occasionally raise
the ire of readers
such as me. When I
read a
sentence such as
"Many silly, mindless
things
have been standing in
the way
of the optimal and
inevitable" (Sept
28), I
ask myself if the
silly, and
mindless
characterizations
belong to this
context. I also wonder
whether
the "optimal and
inevitable" are
objective, neutral terms. On Sept.
30th, in
answering to me,
Stevan made free to
add:
"What on earth does this
mean?".
Was that useful? In
short, Stevan acts as
if there
was one truth, one
defender of this
truth (himself). The
list is
"his" list and, on
it, he can
berate people at will
(What on earth does
this
mean?). And then if
you
resist and respond
with a few
equivalents to
"What on earth...
etc.", then
you are accused of
flaming, being
vituperative, or
whatever.
I wonder how the same
individual, at will
and
arbitrarily, can
assume the
trappings of a
moderator or a debate
without even
making sure that
people
know which role is at
work. It troubles me
and, I
assume, it should
trouble
many people.
This said, Stevan has
also done excellent
work in
setting up this
list and
maintaining it. This
too should be
recognized
openly and loudly.
But there
is room for
improvement.
Jean-Claude Guédon
PS I will not come
back on this point. I
leave the
floor to Stevan
or any
other person willing
to defend his present
position as both actor and
moderator.
Le lundi 06 octobre
2008 à 13:23 -0400,
Stevan
Harnad a écrit :
Whether you do or do
not receive copies of
your
own postings depends
on the setting you
chose when you signed
onto the
American Scientist
Open Access Forum. I
have checked
Leslie's,
Sally's and Jean-Claude's
settings. I note that
both Leslie's and
Sally's were set to "No
acknowledgements
[NOACK NOREPRO]" --
the
listserv's default option. I
have now changed them
both to "Receive copy
of own postings [NOACK
REPRO]".
Jean-Claude's setting
was
already "Receive copy of own
postings [NOACK
REPRO]".
If you are not
receiving copies of
your own
postings, you can modify
your settings at
http://listserver.sigmaxi.org/sc/wa.exe?SUBED1=american-scientist-open-acces
s-forum&A=1
Stevan Harnad
Moderator
---------- Forwarded
message ----------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008
11:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE:
Jean-Claude
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Gu=E9don_is_wrong=2C_and_so_is_Zinath_Rehana?=
From: "Leslie Chan"
<chan_at_utsc.utoronto.ca>
To: "American
Scientist Open Access
Forum"
<AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG>
This has been a
source of confusion
for me in the
past. It appears
that
the listserv software
is setup in such a
way that
the senders do not
receive a copy of his
or her own postings.
Is this
the case,
Stevan, and
can this be changed
to avoid future
confusion?
Leslie
Apologies
- I have
no idea
why my
own
original
posting on the
matter
di=
d
not
appear on
my own
computer
Sally
Sally
Morris
Consultant,
Morris
Associates
(Publishing
Consultancy)
South
House,
The
Street
Clapham,
Worthing,
West
Sussex
BN13 3UU,
UK
Tel:
+44(0)1903
871286
Fax:
+44(0)8701
202806
Email:
sally_at_morris-assocs.demon.co.uk
-----Original
Message-----
From:
American
Scientist
Open
Access
Forum
[mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-
FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
On
Behalf Of
Stevan
Harnad
Sent: 06
October
2008
15:08
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Subject:
Re:
Jean-Claude
Gu=E9don
is wrong,
and so is Zinath Rehana
On
10/6/08,
Sally
Morris
(Morris
Associates)
<sally_at_morris-assocs.demon.co.uk>
wrote:
List
readers
will
have
seen
the
positive
comments on Stevan's
moderati=
on
of
the
list
I
am
worried,
however,
about
whether
negative comments are being
censored.
Mine
was
May I
suggest
that
before
resorting
to
accusations of censorship, as
Jean-Claude
Guedon
did, you
consult
the
American Scientist Open
Access
Forum's
archive
http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/American-Scientist-Open-Access-Fo=
rum.h
tml
where you
will see,
as
Jean-Claude
did, that
all your postings have
appeared.
Nothing
has been
rejected
except
another inappropriate
posting
by Zinath
Rehana.
Please
distinguish
the fact
that I am
often
critical of your
postings
in my
postings
(as you
often are
of mine)
from
the question of
whether
or not
they
appear.
They all
appear,
and when
I do a critique,
just as
when you
do a
critique,
I am
merely a
poster
to the Forum, like
anyone
else.
I will
not,
however,
approve
further
postings
accusing me of
censorship
from
posters
who have
simply
not
bothered to check (or
have
not
noticed)
that
their
postings
have
appeared. This entire
"censorship"
thread
has
already
cost
the Forum a number of long-term
members
who have
quit the
list
because
they do
not have the time for
these
off-topic
exchanges.
If you
wish to
inquire about a posting,
send me
an email.
The
Forum's
bandwidth
is
not intended for this
sort
of thing.
Stevan
Harnad
Sally
Morris
Consultant,
Morris
Associates
(Publishing
Consultancy)
South
House,
The
Street
Clapham,
Worthing,
West
Sussex
BN13
3UU,
UK
Tel:
+44(0)1903
871286
Fax:
+44(0)8701
202806
Email:
sally_at_morris-assocs.demon.co.uk
_____
From:
American
Scientist
Open
Access
Forum
[mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-
FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG]
O=
n
Behalf
Of
Subbiah
Arunachalam
Sent:
06
October
2008
04:47
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Subject:
Re:
Jean-Claude
Gu=E9don
is
wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana
I
would
say
the
same
thing
as
Alma
Swan
and Barbara Kirsop, but
being
=
a
native
speakers
of
English,
they
have
said
it far more
effectively
tha=
n
I
could.
Stevan,
you
are
doing
a
great
job.
Do
not
get distracted from
your
pat=
h
because
of
a
few
detractors.
Your
postings
are very educative and
we
i=
n
the
developing
world
are
greatly
indebted
to
you for your tireless
efforts
to
democratise
knowledge
and
open
up
the
flow
of information.
Arun
[Subbiah
Arunachalam]
-----
Original
Message
----
From:
Ept
<ept_at_BIOSTRAT.DEMON.CO.UK>
To:
AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG
Sent:
Friday,
3
October,
2008
18:17:30
Subject:
Re:
Jean-Claude
Gu=E9don
is
wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana
Surely
all
readers
of
this
List
will
be
grateful to the moderator
for
sparing
us
this
objectionable
posting
and
I subscribe absolutely
to
th=
e
sentiments
so
well
expressed
by
Alma
Swan.
The role of a
Moderator
is
=
no
easy
path
to
follow
and
surely
leads
to
turbulence within this
highly
vocal
and
dedicated
community,
each
with
their
different backgrounds
and
own
professional
agendas.
But
as
a
person
working in 'development',
I
for
one
am
grateful
to
Stevan
for
his
frequent
reiteration of the basic
points=
,
as
I
am
sure
are
newcomers
to
the
List.
As
a
prime mover in the
evolutionar=
y
process
towards
free
access
to
essential
research, his tireless
effort=
s
are
well
appreciated
by
the
information-starved world.
Barbara
Kirsop
Electronic
Publishing
Trust
for
Development
Jean-Claude Guédon
Université de
Montréal
--
Scanned by iCritical for STFC.
Jean-Max Noyer
BIOGeoMedia
Laboratoire CRICS/LCS
CASE 70 98
Université Denis Diderot, Paris7
2, place Jussieu
75251, Paris, Cedex
Mail: jean-max.noyer_at_ext.jussieu.fr
jean-max.noyer_at_paris7.jussieu.fr
onyx16b_at_yahoo.fr
0157277942
0615047761
0494453784
http://www.uf-cci.univ-paris7.fr/crics/index.htm
http://archivesic.ccsd.cnrs.fr
http://webu2.upmf-grenoble.fr/adest/
http://biblio-fr.info.unicaen.fr/bnum/jelec/Solaris/index.html
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Received on Thu Oct 09 2008 - 14:13:37 BST