orphan works in French Parliament

From: Jean Kempf <Jean.Kempf_at_UNIV-LYON2.FR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 17:07:35 +0100

Thank you Bernard for making this point and empasizing it. I encourage all of
those who read French on this list to visit the URL given by Bernard:
http://aful.org/sections/communiques/senat-organise-viol-droits-auteur
This proposal is definitely aimed at stopping what is seen as the "unfair
competition" of open access/licenses to publish, and other "free" distribution.
For the moment it's only still images which are covered by the bill but it could
very well expand to all works of the mind.
This is worth watching because France is well known for not liking the concept
of "fair use" nor (a fortiori) of "free" in the Lessig sense of the word.
Jean



      * Hélène.Bosc <hbosc-tchersky_at_orange.fr>, le 16-11-10, a écrit:
> Bernard,
> Your worry about orphan works is not mine, because I think it
> doesn't prevent to reach OA.

      Bonjour Hélène,

      well ... you are unfortunately wrong

      with the law as it was stated (it did not fare too well so far, but
      the reason is not clear) works could be taken out of OA
      if the rightsholder is not reachable.

      did you read our Press release:

      http://aful.org/sections/communiques/senat-organise-viol-droits-auteur


> But in Germany, some researchers are concerned by it.  May I
      suggest
> you to join the European Network for Copyright in support of
> Education and Science (ENCES) which is working on it.
> http://www.ences.eu/
> Contact : http://www.ences.eu/contact/
> Please see this recent reporthttp://iuwis.de/blog/hearing-orphan-works-german-federal-ministry-justice-repor
      t

      thanks for the pointers


      The main problem is that everyone is now working on the orphan work
      concept without questionning it ...  and it is nonsense.

      amitiés
      Bernard


> Amitiés.
> Hélène Bosc
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bernard Lang"
> <Bernard.Lang_at_INRIA.FR>
> To: <AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS-FORUM_at_LISTSERVER.SIGMAXI.ORG>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: The First and Foremost PostGutenberg Distinction
>
>
>
> Thank you Jean-Claude
>
> But when you speak of the green and gold road, and their form of
      publishing,
> does it imply that the accessible works come with these rights
      granted ...
>
> or is it only seen as a way to get there.
>
> I means that if those rights are given, does it matter much how
      the
> work is initially made available.
>
> With apologies if my questions are silly.  I am missing a link
      somewhere.
>
> I do need to clarify these issues, as France seems intent (I do
      hope
> they fail miserably) to have an orphan law, that would give
      control
> over works to collective societies, to manage and make money from
> (theoretically in the author's name). One of the explicit purposes
      is
> to kill free works as much as possible (unfair competition).
>
> This is already pretty bad.
>
> Next news is that the definition of orphan works ignores the
      existence
> of a licence or anything.  Only reaching the author matters.
>
> In other words, the open access publications of an academic who
      has
> retired without leaving an address might cease to be open access.
> They did not say either that the law is only applicable to French
> works.
>
> So far it was only a law for still images, but they were very
      clear
> that the intents is to expend it to all things printable.
>
> Why still images .. because that gives them an excuse to get
      started,
> as photos are often used illegally by pretending the author cannot
      be
> found.  But there are better way of solving that problem.
>
> As I want at least to have open access works excluded, I need a
> definition, that will be general enough without encompassing
> everything on the net.
>
> I have various references, but all in French.
>
> Bernard
>
>
> PS The promoter of that law explained to me that violating the
      moral
> rights of an author (by preventing use of his works without a
      mandate
> from the author) is OK if done with a state mandate, i.e., with
      legal
> permission.
>
>
>

> * Jean-Claude Guédon <jean.claude.guedon_at_umontreal.ca>, le
> 16-11-10, a écrit:
> >Bernard,
> >
> >I will simply quote the Bethesda statement on OA:
> >
> >
> >     1. Definition of Open Access Publication
> >
> >
> >An Open Access Publication[1] is one that meets the following two
> >conditions:
> >
> >
> >     1. The author(s) and copyright holder(s) grant(s) to all
      users a
> >        free, irrevocable, worldwide, perpetual right of access
      to, and
> >        a license to copy, use, distribute, transmit and display
      the
> >        work publicly and to make and distribute derivative
      works, in
> >        any digital medium for any responsible purpose, subject
      to
> >        proper attribution of authorship[2], as well as the right
      to
> >        make small numbers of printed copies for their personal
      use.
> >
> >     2. A complete version of the work and all supplemental
      materials,
> >        including a copy of the permission as stated above, in a
> >        suitable standard electronic format is deposited
      immediately
> >        upon initial publication in at least one online
      repository that
> >        is supported by an academic institution, scholarly
      society,
> >        government agency, or other well-established organization
      that
> >        seeks to enable open access, unrestricted distribution,
> >        interoperability, and long-term archiving (for the
      biomedical
> >        sciences, PubMed Central is such a repository).
> >
> >
> >I hope this helps you sort out these ideas.
> >
> >OA is more than simple and cost-less access; it implies the same
      kinds
> >of freedoms that a GPL ensures for software.
> >
> >Much of OA thinking was inspired by the free software movement.
> >
> >Jean-Claude Guédon
> >
> >Le mardi 16 novembre 2010 à 13:21 +0100, Bernard Lang a écrit :
> >
> >>
> >> Is there a distinction between papers that are just openly
      accessible,
> >> and papers that can be freely reproduced on other sites, or
      other
> >> media in your classifications.
> >>
> >> I am trying o identifi the concept of an open work.  If it is
      simply
> >> something that I can access, that qualifies the whole of the
      Internet.
> >>
> >> But can I make copies, preserve it or present it in some other
      form.
> >> Who has enough rights so that the conditions of work
      availability can
> >> evolve with the state of the art in documents access,
      presentation,
> >> organization.
> >>
> >> What we do now in not the end of progress in publication. My
      concern
> >> is the future.
> >>
> >> Why do I worry : because I spend much time working on orphan
      works
> >> issues.  I am trying to determine when the rightsholder is
      needed to
> >> ensure adequate life and survival of a work.  Being accessible
      for
> >> reading is just not enough.
> >>
> >> Bernard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> * Jean-Claude Guédon <jean.claude.guedon_at_UMONTREAL.CA>, le
> >14-11-10, a > écrit:
> >> > Indeed, Larry!
> >> >
> >> > And Stevan Harnad is quite right is refusing to equate Open
> >Access > > with
> >> > the Gold Road.
> >> >
> >> > In fact, Open Access is made up of two approaches: OA
      publishing or
> >> > "Gold Road" and self-archiving or "Green Road". And both
      roads are
> >> > valuable, arguably equally (although differently) valuable.
> >> >
> >> > As for Wallace-Evans, one only has to see how he
      characterized
> >Robert > > K.
> >> > Merton ("most pusillanimous"... ???) to realize that the
> >barbarians > > are
> >> > at the gates. It is a pity to see a priodical like Nation
      fall
> >this > > low.
> >> > I used to like reading Nation when I was a student.
> >> >
> >> > Jean-Claude Guédon
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Le dimanche 14 novembre 2010 à 10:21 -0500, Stevan Harnad a
      écrit :
> >> > > One can sympathize with Larry Lessig's frustration in "An
      Obvious
> >> > > Distinction":
> >> > >
> >> > >                 LL:
> >> > >                 "In 2010, [for David Wallace-Evans] to
      suggest [in a
> >> > >                 6000-word review in The Nation] that [the
      Creative
> >> > >                 Commons movement] 'exhort[s]? piracy and the
> >> > >                 plundering of culture'... betrays not just
      sloppy

> >> > >                 thinking [but] extraordinary ignorance?
> >[and lack > > > of]
> >> > >                 respect for what has been written? This
      terrain has
> >> > >                 been plowed a hundred times in the past
      decade?
> >> > >                 Reading is the first step to? respect for
      what has
> >> > >                 been written... Reading is what
> >Wallace-Wells has > > > not
> >> > >                 done well."
> >> > >
> >> > > Larry tries to correct Wallace-Evans's 6000 sloppy words
      with 878
> >> > > carefully chosen ones of his own.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Let me try to atone for my own frequent long-windedness by
      trying to
> >> > > put it even more succinctly (20 words):
> >> > >
> >> > >                 Creative Commons' goal
> >> > >                 is to protect
> >> > >                 creators' give-away rights -- > > >
> >not consumers'
> >> > >                 (or 2nd-party copyright-holders')
> >> > >                 rip-off rights.
> >> > >
> >> > > (Reader's of the American Scientist Open Access Forum may
> >have a > > > sense
> >> > > of déjà lu about this since at least as far back as
      December
> >> > > 2000: > > >
> >http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/1048.html )
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > >         Harnad, Stevan (2000/2001/2003/2004) For Whom the
      Gate
> >> > >         Tolls? Published as: (2003) Open Access to
      Peer-Reviewed
> >> > >         Research Through Author/Institution Self-Archiving:
> >> > > Maximizing
> >> > >         Research Impact by Maximizing Online Access. In:
> >Law, Derek > > > &
> >> > >         Judith Andrews, Eds. Digital Libraries: Policy
      Planning and
> >> > >         Practice. Ashgate Publishing 2003. [Shorter
      version:
> >Harnad > > > S.
> >> > >         (2003) Journal of Postgraduate Medicine 49:
> >337-342.] and > > > in:
> >> > >         (2004) Historical Social Research (HSR) 29:1.
> >[French > > > version:
> >> > >         Harnad, S. (2003) Cielographie et cielolexie:
      Anomalie
> >> > >         post-gutenbergienne et comment la resoudre. In:
      Origgi, G. &
> >> > >         Arikha, N. (eds) Le texte a l'heure de l'Internet.
> >> > >         Bibliotheque Centre Pompidou: 77-103.
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > >
> >> > > The persistent "piracy" canard calls to mind others like
      it,
> >> > > foremost
> >> > > among them being:
> >> > > "OA Åþ Gold OA (publishing)"...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > >         Harnad, S., Brody, T., Vallieres, F., Carr, L.,
> >Hitchcock, > > > S.,
> >> > >         Gingras, Y, Oppenheim, C., Stamerjohanns, H., &
      Hilf, E.
> >> > >         (2004) The green and the gold roads to Open Access.
> >Nature > > > Web
> >> > >         Focus
> >> > > > > >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > -- > > Jean-Claude Guédon
> >> > Professeur titulaire
> >> > Littérature comparée
> >> > Université de Montréal
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Jean-Claude Guédon
> >Professeur titulaire
> >Littérature comparée
> >Université de Montréal
>
> --
>             Après la bulle Internet, la bulle financière ...
>                   Et bientôt la bulle des brevets
>     http://www.strategie.gouv.fr/revue/IMG/pdf/article_HS7RL2.pdf
>
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-kahin/the-patent-bubble_b_129232.html
>       la gestion des catastrophes comme principe de gouvernement
>
>  Bernard.Lang_at_datcha.net       ,_  /\o    \o/    gsm  +33 6 6206
      1693
http://www.datcha.net/      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  tel  +33 1 3056
      1693
>        Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion
>                 CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX
>
>
>

      --
                   Après la bulle Internet, la bulle financière ...
                         Et bientôt la bulle des brevets
           http://www.strategie.gouv.fr/revue/IMG/pdf/article_HS7RL2.pdf
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-kahin/the-patent-bubble_b_129232.html

             la gestion des catastrophes comme principe de gouvernement

        Bernard.Lang_at_datcha.net       ,_  /\o    \o/    gsm  +33 6 6206
      1693
        http://www.datcha.net/      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  tel  +33 1 3056
      1693
              Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion
                       CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX
Received on Thu Nov 18 2010 - 01:01:52 GMT

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