Re: Please Don't Conflate Green and Gold OA

From: Arthur Sale <ahjs_at_OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:43:12 +1100

Dear Klaus

I don't believe you are an idiot, but if you want to be taken seriously you
must give the data to support your arguments. It was really interesting to
see, for example, that the two papers you received were from our top 1% of
researchers (Professors Large and Canty). Large h-index 12, 67 papers, 680
citations, paper 0 cites published 2007, Geology; Canty h-index 8, 111
papers, 294 citations, paper 0 cites published 2008, Chemistry.

Your queries were pitched right in the middle of the examinations period,
and I am sure that even in Germany you would expect this to have
consequences for responses. You also chose three geology papers, which we
know here have some of the most restrictive copyright policies on the
planet. The reasons are obvious: there is a lot of money involved in
minerals exploitation (billions of dollars) and people pay very high prices
for these journals. One paper (your second, from Education) is unpublished,
for a reason I don't know, but in any case it is not yet public nor
refereed. The remaining three are from political science (2) and chemistry

Since this is early days in the use of the button, I thought 2/6 (33%) is
actually not a bad response even ignoring the time of the year. It is
certainly a better access rate than 0/6, and better than non-mandatory OA
deposit (around 10-15%). Obviously we in Tasmania need to do more work to
educate our depositors to respond to 'reprint' requests, and we will. So
maybe if I concede that the button is not infallible, perhaps you will
concede that it is so far better than any non-mandatory deposit scheme

I would be grateful if you would stop labelling all processes at the
University of Tasmania that you don't agree with as Harnadian. I make up my
own mind as to what to implement.

Arthur Sale
University of Tasmania

-----Original Message-----
From: American Scientist Open Access Forum
Behalf Of Klaus Graf
Sent: Saturday, 22 November 2008 2:05 PM
Green and Gold OA

2008/11/22 Arthur Sale <>:
> Klaus
> I find your conclusions regarding the "Request Button" unproven.
> . Firstly, it is obvious that the button "works" in the case of
> University of Tasmania. You got two papers, so the software works.

That was'nt the point. Like Professor Harnad you seems to use a
rabulistic discussion style.

> . Secondly the sample was ridiculously small.

This is true. So what? I requested 7 articles and received only 2. In
find this a very poor result for a Harnadian patent recipe.

> . Thirdly, you have given no indication of what you asked for. For
> example if you had asked for a thesis, the following could have happened:

I did'nt ask for a thesis. Do you think I am an idiot not knowing what
OA a la Harnad means? I asked for the following papers:

Reading, AM and Kennett, BLN and Goleby, B (2007) New constraints on
the seismic structure of West Australia: Evidence for terrane
stabilization prior to the assembly of an ancient continent? Geology,
35 (4). pp. 379-382. ISSN 0091-7613

Smith, KH (2006) Promoting innovation in Australia: business and
policy issues. Discussion Paper. Australian Business Foundation,

Kellow, AJ and Haward, M and Welch, K (2005) Salmon and Fruit Salad:
Australia's Response to World Trade Organisation Quarantine Disputes*.
Australian Journal of Political Science, 40 (1). pp. 17-32. ISSN

Cooke, DR and McPhail, DC (2001) Epithermal Au-Ag-Te Mineralization,
Acupan, Baguio District, Philippines: Numerical Simulations of Mineral
Deposition. Economic Geology, 96 (1). pp. 109-131. ISSN 0361-0128

Haward, M and Rothwell, DR and Jabour, J and Hall, R and Kellow, AJ
and Kriwoken, L and Lugten, GL and Hemmings, AD (2006) Australia's
Antarctic agenda. Australian Journal of International Affairs, 60 (3).
pp. 439-456. ISSN 1035-7718

Large, RR and Maslennikov, V and Robert, F and Danyushevsky, LV and
Chang, Z (2007) Multistage sedimentary and metamorphic origin of
pyrite and gold in the giant Sukhoi Log deposit, Lena gold province,
Russia. Economic Geology, 102 (7). pp. 1233-1267. ISSN 0361-0128
Multistage_Sedimentary.pdf [received]

Canty, AJ and Deverell, JA and Gomann, A and Guijt, RM and Rodemann, T
and Smith, JA (2008) Microfluidic Devices for Flow-Through Supported
Palladium Catalysis on Porous Organic Monolith. Australian Journal of
Chemistry, 61 (8). pp. 630-633. ISSN 0004-9425
AustJChem_2008.pdf [received]

Klaus Graf
Received on Sat Nov 22 2008 - 10:59:08 GMT

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